Homeschooling
My husband and I fight about two topics. Neither has a direct impact on our current daily life, and that is the way I like to keep it. I figure that if you fight about things long before they are a part of your reality, then it keeps the fights much cleaner and with a whole lot less pressure. Right? Right.
One of the subjects we fight about is homeschooling. I was non-schooled until I went to college. I was a strongly motivated, undereducated child who was quite aware of the fact that the honors students at the local public school got a far better education than I did. Josh went to a private kindergarten, and then public school for a few years before being homeschooled. He was a bright student who was well aware of the fact that he was getting a better education than was offered at any of the surrounding schools, including the prep-school.
Josh thinks that homeschooling is a great option. I think… well, the main reason that I would love for us to have financial resources is so that there would never be a need for us to homeschool. I can be okay with my children living in a small apartment in a bad part of the city, but I want them to have a great, well-rounded academic education.
Our fight is ongoing, and the little skirmishes look something like this:
Me to my brother: Oh! It is not that I am against homeschooling in general, it is just that I take issue with those who see it as a good and plan for it before they even have children old enough for school.
Josh: Thanks!
Me: What? You actually plan to homeschool?! I thought that you were just keeping it as a very open option in case there was nothing better. Waaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
Regrettably, before we were married I told Josh that I would never homeschool, but that he could do it if he wanted to. Since then I have become both more attracted to the positive aspects of homeschooling and more horrified by how far it must always be from the ideal. So the only solution is to convince Josh of my view before we ever have children. Right? Right.
So, we are taking the fight public. I am going to post about why I am against homeschooling, and then Josh is going to post about why I am wrong. In real life I sometimes let him have the last word, but since this is my blog I suspect that I will counter with another post. And then he will give up. ;-D
My first post is still in draft form and Josh is waiting for me to finish before he writes his impressive rebuttal. That means that there is time for you to chime in if there is anything that you are interested in seeing us address. Is there anything that you have ever wanted to ask homeschool “grads” but never had the chance to ask? Any questions you were afraid to put to homeschoolers because, well, you do not want to be rude? Go for it! I promise to not drag you into our fight. At least not physically.
I’m very interested in reading both your posts. I’ve thought and prayed about homeschooling, and see the great good it provides, but I still feel called to send my kids to school (hopefully Catholic…) I want to hear both sides of the debate!
I look forward to seeing this too. I’ve seen both good and bad come from homeschooling… its a last resort for us. I don’t want to send my kids to public school here so it could happen, but we’re not planning on it.
As a homeschool grad myself, I am torn on this topic! I had many positive experiences, and was in the group of homeschoolers that got a better education than most of my peers in my area. (I was definitely well-prepared for college.) Yet, I have some issues with it. Those seem to grow bigger, not smaller, as time goes on. I can’t wait to hear both sides. Maybe you two can help me make up my mind!
You have no idea how you have crushed me. My homeschoolerdar must be so off. ::sigh::
Maybe you will be able to help us!
I am really excited to hear this debate! A few things – my husband and I almost exclusively fight about future things – and that’s how he prefers it! Long before we ever lived together, he says to me, “Let’s discuss chores. In-law visits. Fighting rules for when we live together…” We also had a really big Hillary Clinton for president fight FOUR years before she ran! So I really, really support this debate
Before this debate begins, I will chime in to say that I’ve always negatively judged the parents (and ultimately the children) that homeschool. People go to school and some even get master’s degrees, in order to learn how to teach calculus, physics, French, British poetry, economics and photography. I really enjoyed all of these classes in high school, and I received A’s in these classes, but does that mean I’m qualified to teach and inspire learning in these subjects? I just find it hard to understand how people can not only be competent in, but be competent teachers in, all of these different subjects.
My final point is that as a researcher, we have A LOT of homeschool families sign up for our studies. The moms tell us (we never meet or hear from the dads) that this is a “science field trip.” This bothers me. I went to science museums and had fabulous presentations and guest lecturers as the “extras” in my science education – not a research study. Participating in a research study, while valuable, is not learning anything about science. And this may sound awful, but we give all of our participants a cognitive battery (I study neuroscience) and the public school kids nearly always do significantly better than the homeschool kids – so much so, that I had to debate whether that needed to be a factor in my analysis. (We also discussed enrolling less homeschooled kids as they are often over represented in research studies, but they also usually have 5+ siblings so you get a lot of volunteers at once – which is nice for enrollment numbers). But of course that would make me confused about how you had the time and skill to both teach phonics and calculus when I’d see the families with 4 year olds and 17 year olds being homeschooled.
Anyways, I’m interested in hearing the debate as I’m constantly striving to be less judgmental and see both sides. You too also come from a great place as you both were homeschooled, had different experiences, and genuinely want a great education for your children. It will be a great debate!
You are better than us. We did not think to have the Hilary Clinton fight until she was actually running, and we had to take a few months of just not talking about it.
I completely side with you on the teachers-should-be-trained thing. Some of the most well-educated homeschooled grads I know had one parent who was trained as a science teacher and the other who was an English teacher. And the parents utilized a co-op subjects out of both of their range.
That is definitely one of the worst “science field trips” that I have heard of! I hope that it is a supplement to more normal outings. I bash my education, but at least I was taken to science museums and zoos.
I wonder whether the number of siblings should be factored in as well as the homeschooled aspect? In my experience that has a large impact on development, and I don’t imagine that such large families are the norm for your study. If only everything could be perfectly isolated. Can you see why I am not in research?
I recently found out my good friend’s sister is homeschooling her kids. She told me her sister was a teacher and a vice-principal. And you just mentioned teachers too. So there goes one judgment – there are parents that are qualified who homeschool.
Regarding our research participants (which you are right is a very boring field trip) I should be less biased and just report the facts
We’ve had some lovely homeschool families, but 2 really soured me. Both had @ 6 kids and homeschooled them all. In one family the kids were getting up at 4am to start school because the mom wanted to be done by noon. The youngest kids were very tired and obviously not getting adequate sleep. The 7-year-old who I tested answered everything with “Jesus.” How are red and blue alike? (answer – they are both colors) – her answer – Jesus made both of them. I’d probe her for more – “any other way they are the same; any other way they are alike” – 20 questions, 20 times “Jesus, Jesus, Jesus.” The other family irked me because they decided (and for some reason told me) that they didn’t have enough $$ for all of their children to participate in sports, so only the boys got to play. The girls talked a lot about how they wished they could. It was sad.
All of these families were very kind, and I imagine they had a diverse and wide range of reasons for wanting to homeschool. One last thing, I was reading a different blog yesterday that was talking about homeschool, and it seemed she was homeschooling her kids b.c. she wanted that to be her career?! As in she was searching for a job and a role – and she chose homeschool teacher. That bothered me too. Sorry for another long comment; enjoy this discussion!
I hope that this does not come across as offensive (which I guess means it will since it always does when people start comments like this… but it really does not reflect on you negatively), but I wish that you were a spammer/troll so that I could assume that your story about the 7-year-old was made up. I really, really wish there were some way to have good regulation of homeschooling without stepping on parental rights. And I really hate the sexism which is abundant in so many homeschool communities.
Were parents compensated financially for participating in the study? I wonder if there is some reason that it would attract a specific group of homeschoolers.
Rae, I totally think you nailed it – the kids were compensated (about $70 per kid) for 2 hours of participation. I am sure that there is no way we adequately sampled the homeschooling population; a few families is a tiny window. I am in no way offended and sometimes after I hit “post comment” I worry if I sounds troll-like; I’m glad you know me. And I like that you continue to let me post my comments – your life seems so very different than mine – and you are so introspective and thoughtful in your posts – I’m learning a lot from you!
Regarding parental rights – I did a year rotation in a pediatric inpatient psych ward. Wow! Forget about regulating homeschooling – I sometimes wanted to regulate parenting! Like you have to take classes and go to the DMV for a parent test before you are allowed to have a kid! But of course, those thoughts are completely opposite to my thoughts on human rights and parenting rights! It’s hard! Off to read your new post!
I’m also looking forward to your debate. My fiance and I have already kind of discussed this option, although we’re far from decided as we’re not even married yet.
I was not home schooled. I went to private (Lutheran) schools all the way up until college. My fiance also was not home schooled. He went to both public and private schools.
Home schooling was never even an option before I became Catholic. Being Lutheran I only knew of one home schooled kid and he was just odd.. But since becoming Catholic I’ve read a lot more on this and it seems to be sort of popular amongst some Catholic families.
I’m sort of torn on the subject. I personally enjoyed going to school. But I also feel as though a lot of time of the day is wasted while at school. That is one aspect that appeals to me about home schooling. That you can focus on your kids and take less time out of the day. Now, my fiance hated school in his younger years. He wished to be home schooled. But as the child of a single mom, he didn’t have that option. He just felt like he was wasting his time at school.
I also like the fact that you can help instill the virtues and morals easier as the kids don’t have the negative impact of some peers. But then again, perhaps that impact from their peers will help them mature. See, I’m still undecided about the whole thing.
Personally, if we did ever decide to home school it would be only until the child wanted to. If they ever wanted to go to school and were old enough to make that decision, we would send them to school. Because I think it’s important to listen to your kids.
So yeah, I’m still undecided!
Oh, very good point about listening to your children. I know that a lot of my view is probably shaped by the fact that I really wanted to go to school for academic reasons, and my parents would not let me. On the other hand, my husband loved being homeschooled and I have thought that if we have a child like him we had better be able to afford Montessori school. Otherwise homeschooling would be a must.
I think you all make a good point about being educated in the areas that you’re teaching should you home school. But on the other side, I went to a tiny little Lutheran school for grade school. Our teachers all taught 3 grades at once and they taught all the subjects. So, not all schools supply teachers for each subject to the younger grades, and we still turn out okay. Because there’s no way these teachers were experts in all of these subjects either.
I guess for me, I see high school as being more important for getting into deeper understanding. And from what my fiance and I have discussed I doubt that we would home school high school age kids. Because I think by that age, you need to get out and get a deeper understanding for the subjects than a parent with other younger children can give you. How many home school parents have access to the chemicals and things needed for Chemistry experiments? Or dead animals for dissection in biology? I think those are the types of things that it’s harder to get at home. And I know for me personally, my high school years are what formed me into what I wanted to go to college for (Biology).
But I think with younger (grade school aged) kids it’s easier for parents to school them because it isn’t quite as in-depth. At least that’s how I see it. I know others may feel differently.
I think that you’re right that one person can be a Renaissance teacher at the primary level. I do, however, think that there is an advantage to being trained as a teacher. I only took one education class, but I learned such a huge amount. I imagine that elementary school teachers who are well educated have a tremendous set of skills to rely on which may put them at an advantage over those who studied something other than teaching.
And we’re going to address the various difficulties of different ages in our post. I actually think that there is a huge amount of resources available for parents who wish to homeschool for high school… if they have the time and money to look!
You make it sound as though your discussing getting a puppy. It’s a child. A child that will grow inside you and hopefully you’ll bond enough to not want it to live in a shabby apartment in a bad neighborhood or go to public school. If you plan on handing your child off to your hubby to educate I suggest you read ‘The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands’ before you even attempt to get pregnant. There is no debate!
EDIT:
The quality of public school varies greatly in this country. The main reason that I said that I hoped to have financial resources for educating my children was so that they would be in a good school: either a high quality private school (preferably Catholic) or a high quality public school.
If there were a neighborhood in my community which was so bad that it was better for us to spend money to live elsewhere rather than to spend it on our children’s education, then I do not see how homeschooling would be an option. It would a matter of moral obligation that I put my children in the public school and spend my time and energy working to improve conditions for the children who were forced to live in the dangerous neighborhood.
But if it is simply a matter of sharing bedrooms and small bathrooms with ugly tile in a less than prestigious neighborhood, then I will chose education over house any day for my children.
I prefer to think of healthy parenting as a joint effort rather than one parent owning the child and “handing it off” to the other. That said, if something happened that made it so that one of us had to be the parent without the help of the other, I would hope that my children got to be parented by my husband. He is the best when it comes to love, kindness, and gentle guidance, not to mention intelligence!
Cindy – So if send my child to a public school, that means I didn’t “bond enough” with the child? And can we please stop calling her “Doctor” Laura? She is not a psychologist and she is not a physician.
Rae,
A few things. (1) Take a deep breath and remember “charity in all things” before responding to commenters, even if they are not charitable to you.
(2) There are some other options out there as well, though they may not be as wide-spread. There is an independent Catholic school attached to the parish we attend here, and it is run with a Classical-homeschool “style” cirriculum, but is a traditional school setting. The children attend Mass daily and learn Latin. Those two things of themselves make me want to send our children there, because I *know* that I will never make it to daily Mass with little ones, and I don’t know Latin. The school goes K-8 currently, but they are expanding to a high school soon, I believe. The parents I know who have children there have been very happy with it.
It’s called Lumen Christi school: http://www.lumenchristischool.org/
When/If we have children, as long as we live in Indy, I think we’re agreed that we’d like them to attend LC. I don’t think there’s a right or wrong answer for this question; just what’s prayerfully discerned for each family.
When I started to read your comment my heart sank because I thought that you were telling me that I needed to have more charity toward homeschoolers. I planned to put a disclaimer at the top of my “anti-homeschool philosophy” post, but hoped that this one was obviously flippant enough to not offend. Please do let me know when my flippancy becomes offensive.
That school sounds great! I am going to share the link with Josh because I think that he would love it (he is more traditional than I am, though I would love for our children to participate in the TLM daily as long as they were learning Latin). And I am with you on the concern about daily Mass while in the baby years. I think that most people sadly underestimate how difficult it is to provide a strong Catholic education (in the fullest sense, not just academic) when you are raising a large Catholic family. I know that some women can handle it all, but I don’t think that it is right to expect it as a norm.
I completely agree that the best answer depends upon the family’s situation. I just hope to have the resources that will make our family’s best answer be some form of great Catholic school.
EDIT: I showed the website to Josh and his response was “so we’re moving to Indiana when we have children?”
Oh no, Rae! I wasn’t saying you don’t have enough charity, just that, given one or two of the comments I’ve seen, I’d be likely to tell that woman where to get off. But *you* have more grace and charity than me in that sense.
I realized that it was only a warning once I actually read the whole thing, but I still want you to call me out when I am rude. I tend to be rather blunt online, so no one has offended me yet. And *you* were a great model of grace in responding to my comment(s?) on your posts on headcovering!
Oh, I’m definitely looking forward to this series! Right now we are keeping all our options open for our future children’s education: public, private, home, whatever. There are some things that really attract me to each different type. I do think this is a decision that must be prayerfully discerned after you’ve actually had your children… but I agree that it’s great to discuss it and think it over way in advance!
In addition to waiting until we have kids, we also have to wait to make these decisions until we’ve settled down permanently (ie, bought a house). The public and private schools where we live now are great, but we don’t plan to be here forever (or even two more years), so we’re definitely taking a wait-and-see approach until we’ve really found our community.
Hm, and any questions for homeschool grads? Gosh, now that I have the chance I can’t think of any! Maybe just to ask what type of homeschool method you prefer? I’m not so attracted to the whole unschooling thing personally, and I don’t know if classical would really be my style either. So what have you seen that worked, didn’t work, could work if someone else was doing it, etc.
I actually agree with you that this is a decision that has to be prayerfully decided once you actually *have* children- and sometimes multiple times throughout the child’s education. Josh and I are actually fairly confident that we would not have a fight if we were dealing with a real child with real needs, and actual academic options. But I guess I have to fight about something, and we definitely do not see eye-to-eye on the theory of this!
I think that your wait-and-see approach is quite wise. One of the things that is huge for me but was new for Josh was choosing a community based on options for schools. But who knows whether we will have that option?
Thanks for the questions! I can’t wait to see Josh’s answers as I really have no idea what he will say.
How do you plan to socialize your children? If you homeschool, what “extra” opportunities would they miss out on?
My brother’s best friend’s family homeschools. The kids are great – they have great manners and personalities. They have a big homeschool network that they do things with. His mom also has a degree – she teaches college classes, so we know she is capable.
However. I have also seen homeschool families where the kids are CRAZY and have no social abilities at all. They miss out on “school” experiences like music groups, sports, academic teams, student council, etc. Not that everyone MUST participate in those activities to be socially adept – BUT. Without the opportunity, I feel these children are being held back.
Just a little more fuel for the fire – I’m interested in seeing your arguments for and against!
Thanks for the questions. I think that you are very right that there are good homeschool situations and bad homeschool situations.
Can’t wait to read the post. I am all for homeschooling and my husband wants to do private school. My big problem with our local private school, our church, is that the kindgarten teacher was teaching the wrong religious events (Immaculate Conception, etc.) Also, some of my friends kids in her kindgarten class were talking about High School Musical and it made her realize that she didn’t want her kids associating with other kids who parents let them watch such mature shows at such a young age. A few of my friends homeschool and there are many great homeschooling groups in our area. My plan is to homeschool until 8th grade but at the same time saving the amount we would pay for private education and using that money to pay for a good private high school. I’m looking forward to this blog debate! Can’t wait!
Oh, I can see why you would want to homeschool in that situation! I would much rather have my kids in a good non-Christian school than have them taught mixed up religion at a Catholic school! Good support is crucial for good homeschooling, so it is great that it sounds like you will have the resources you need for your situation!
A question for the debate – how hard would it be for a child to spend K-8 in homeschool and then transfer to a high school? It sounds like it would be quite the transition socially, academically, and also structurally. Do you know of peers who have both successfully and unsuccessfully made that transition? What helped that transition?
Finally, some commenters have listed isolation as a reason to homeschool – they want to isolate their children from the heathens (my non-Catholic not yet born children perhaps!?). Do you have peers who were homeschooled in order to be protected/isolated/sheltered from things as awful as High School Musical – and what were the range of outcomes when they left their parents’ homes? My judgment would be that you need practice saying no to things and being in college could be a bit overwhelming after 18 years of being sheltered from temptations.
Thanks for the questions. I think that we’re going to have fun with these… let’s just say that I was about as sheltered as you can be while still getting to college, and my “temptations” were rather non-standard since I went to a college whose party atmosphere rivals BYU.
We have family that did that & the kids transitioned just fine… but I think it really depends on how you approach homeschool while you’re doing it and how much socialization they’re getting then. In our families case they got quite a bit…
I didn’t read through everyone else’s comments, so please forgive me if some of these are repeats:
How does homeschooling affect under-motivated kids? I have a few friends who were home schooled that haven’t graduated from high school yet even though they are a year or two younger than me. I know at the moment that they do not feel that it is important to have their high school diploma, but someday they’ll probably be kicking themselves over why they didn’t. What would you do if that was your kid?
If you home school, who makes the curriculum? I know in public schools you have to finish a certain amount of material in a certain amount of time, so how does that work? How do you know that your child is getting a better education than in public school? Are there any kids of standardized tests that they have to take periodically?
How does one home school high school students, especially in the sciences where there usually is a laboratory component to the class?
Thanks for the questions.
I think that Josh and I might disagree on the answer to the first one.
The most widely accepted learning model in the field of education is Vygotsky’s Social Learning Theory, which suggests that learning is socially mediated process. Therefore, since research shows that children learn through social interaction, in what ways will you, as a homeschooling family, provide and cultivate social interaction for your children?
**Just a question to add to the mix!**
-Katie
Oh, good one. Thanks.
Being the mother of 5 oldest 31 and youngest 9, I have decided to homeschool my youngest next year. She will be entering 5th grade. She currently is an A student and likes school with no issues or peer pressure.
She keeps on asking to be homeschooled however, and actually has since kindergarten. I fully believe that she is an A student because of what I have done with her since birth. This year I allowed the school to fullfill her academics and did not push my extras upon her. Which I do think was a test for myself to see if she would thrive without me. She has lost her interest in reading novels, in second grade she was reading middle school books and driving her teacher nuts because she was so ahead of her class, and just learning all together. I think her insistant push to be homeschooled is because she is bored in the classroom.
But I am afraid because she is the only child she will be socially inadequate, but that can be remedied easily. Now what I don’t understand from reading the posts is aren’t the parents of the homeschooled kids you’ve been talking about monitored? I live in NH and although we can teach what we want and how we want, we must keep a portfolio of all materials used, all of the child’s paperwork, and we can obtain the school’s curriculum to teach at home if we desire and they must take and pass the standardized tests Necap/ Newa’s before the beginning of the new year.
Now being the child of an Italian North End family I went to Presentation Of Mary Academy an all girl very Catholic nuns only boarding school, but I don’t understand what homeschooling has to do with religion at home. It seems like the two automatically go together.
There is so much that can be debated on this subject and I guess I am feeling a little inadequate for my desire to homeschool and trying to justify my decision.
Thanks so much for your comment. It does sound as though your daughter needs something other than what she is getting from school, and you’re a great mother for watching out for her. If private schools are not an option then it would seem that there is little harm in trying homeschooling for a while since your daughter wants it so much. There is actually nothing stopping you from declaring your plan to homeschool in the fall, and then re-enrolling your daughter if you decide that homeschooling was not a good fit. I do think that it would be worth investigating what is available for homeschool groups. You can go to their meetings before deciding whether to homeschool: http://nhhomeschooling.org/support-groups And of course your daughter could continue to be involved with her local school’s extracurriculars.
As for regulation in NH, I am afraid that it is meaningless in practice. Parents must report what curriculum they will use, but they are allowed to use anything they want (for instance, science may be covered by a magazine subscription such as http://creation.com/periodicals#creation_magazine).
Parents are supposed to keep a portfolio, but no one actually checks on that unless the parent chooses the portfolio reporting option instead of standardized tests. If the parent does choose to have the portfolio reviewed, they may choose the teacher who reviews the portfolio. This means that the parent can choose anyone from a family friend who is a teacher, to a reviewer known to homeschoolers to be quite sympathetic. So it really does not matter what the portfolio actually contains.
As far as standardized testing, parents are actually allowed to order any state’s standardized tests. I cannot remember which was which, but I do remember that parents would order either Iowa’s or California’s depending upon whether they wanted to challenge their child or make sure that the child got a good score. Parents can choose to do all of the testing at home. This means that there is nothing to stop cheating, either by the student, or the parent who decides to “modify” the test to what they think is fitting for the student (for instance reading the test aloud to a younger student who is behind in reading, going over questions with the student ahead of time, or not monitoring the time).
At least that is how it was when I was homeschooled, and it does not look as if the law has changed much.
Good luck!
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